“They don’t know what I have.”
March 31, 2007
Dog said this the other day while he was playing and I was watching. He was going to raise a called pot, middle position with some pretty bad cards.
This got me thinking. (oh oh Dave’s trying to think again. See the smoke coming from his head..lol).
One of the many areas where I need to improve my game is in the art of the bluff.
I don’t think bluff is the right word here. There is another word to describe it but I can’t think of it right now. Maybe later in the post I will think of it.
To me, a bluff is a raise or a bet into a pot where you put your opponent on possibly having a piece if it but want to get him out.
What I am thinking about is having the presence of mind to recognize the table dynamic (typically pre-flop) and risking chips to win a hand without the best hand going in.
I think I am getting better at recognizing the table dynamic. It sure does help when you have friends (lol. I just had to correct my spelling on that word. I typed fiends. Thought about leaving it in..haha) like Blagz, Dog, Lippy, Net, Gopher, Ash, etc. coach and offer advice along the way. But, here is where I struggle. I look at my cards.
Sounds silly right. Looking at your cards?
This is where the title of the post comes in. I have seen Dog do this (pre-flop raise knowing the table dynamic) and he would tell me he has a Q 4 or something. I would say ” What are you doing?” Dog’s response would be “They don’t know what I have.”
If I am getting better at reading the table dynamic as I profess to be, then it shouldn’t be my confidence in making the decision as to whether to do it or not.
So, it must be that psycologically, I can’t “pull the trigger” based on the cards I am looking at. If I took a piece of paper, put Q Q on it and taped it to my screen over my 2 7 I would do it.
I think I need to raise my risk level. That meaning, if I trust my judgement, then commit to the process and take the chance no matter what the cards are.
Or, I could just buy a bunch of tape and some pieces of paper..lol
I would be very interested in the thought processes of others when they are in this situation. Do you care about the cards? Do you even do this? Do you only do it with higher cards?
Comments requested.
Comments
5 Responses to ““They don’t know what I have.””
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OK here’s my 2 cents on this topic!
It totally depends on my stack, position and as you said it the table dynamic!
One of the best reasons for this kind of bluffing is to get attention. You simply wanna shift gear and take contol over the table and get the respect! The phsycological effect is huge when used against shortstacked!
As I wrote yesterday in my blog about me reraised with 4 5 off was just to get the attention from the other players, get the respect and control over the table! From playing a very tight game for almost 40 hands shift gear to very aggressive with pp kings and then another with just 4 5 shock the others enough to let me shift down again! After that they never knew when or with what I was going to take out the big gun again, You pretty much control the table to 85-90% in the hands you do choose to get involved with! Confusing them enough to slowly grinding their stacks or stealing it all with a hard blow!
You said it yourself not to let the others around the table mark you as one kind of player! It’s better to just leave them out in the dark wether you have a hand or not!
As was mentioned before in one of our discussion How often do you use the weapon “check-raise”? That can be done with mediocre/marginal-hands too and the effect is devastating to them being victims of it!
Remember the backside-semi-bluff? It doesn’t have to be so you hitted anything on the flop, you just have to imply and amplify that your cards are better than his/hers and that exactly this flop was what you ever dreamt of hitting!
The other reason I do use this is to rebuild my stack if I see i’m on the way to be shortstacked! A bit risky when you’re already shortstacked because then they just assume you’re desperate and play any 2 cards! So in this case use it with caution, you might be called with a monsterhand!
But to bluff and pull it through you need to have found out the exact tabledynamic, moment, put a mark/note on every player at the table and the exact player you’ve chosen to be your ATM at the moment!
I’ve learned some real good rules regarding bluffs but i’m not sure i wanna teach them to ya, you might outsmart me then
No i actually might write about them in a later blog!
Hope I didn’t mess up your thoughts now or confussed you too much!
“To me, a bluff is a raise or a bet into a pot where you put your opponent on possibly having a piece if it but want to get him out.”
To me a bluff is when you represent a draw or cards or a hand that you do not actually have.
Dog does say that and do that sometimes Dave, but he also gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar. To steal it pre-flop you need to be able to bet the right amount and have the chip stack to absorb the loss when the guy that calls or re-raises you with his KK. Usually the amount you steal is simply not worth the risk.
To try steal the pre-flop bets with a bluff is a losing tactic in the long run. Unless there is just a limper or two in the hand that you have a very good ‘handle’ on, or maybe a button steal.
In my opinion bluffing pre flop is generally way too risky. Most times there are not enough chips or variables in play pre-flop for you to use the bluff profitably. Pre flop bluffing is you taking a gamble that no one has a hand they will call you with, remember you don’t know what they got pre flop either!
Once the flop has come, then you have opportunity to represent cards you do not have, also there will be more information available to you to assist your decision making. Even then, unless you have a grasp of the players and the table dynamics it is still a risky move and one you shouldn’t make too often.
Simply put, when you pre flop bluff you are tossing a die, it’s almost pure gamble all the way… Don’t know about you but if I wanna gamble I’ll go to the roulette wheel.. the payout is better…
I agree Blagger and forgot to say I never use preflop-bluffing due to as Blagger says it’s too risky unless i am on the sb or bb and believe i have an upperhand, but as you states it with 7 2? NEVER! You simply don’t have enough info!
Put an informationbet on the other hand I can do preflop just to weed out the limpers and sort out the ones with playable hands! But again not with crap hands!
The key still is you need to have the stack for it and be prepared to fold if reraised!
Good points by both of you.
the more information you have in deciding whether to use the bluff the better.
Using it pre-flop offers no additional information besides what you think the table dynamic is. You have nothing on your opponents hands strengths so you should be careful.
I guess the situation I was mainly talking about was the “tight table” situation.
Take a league game for example. There have been times during a game, usually early, where I have watched 8-10 hands in a row where everyone folds to the blinds and they fight it out.
During this time, you can also tell that they are using the pre action buttons because the folds are very fast. If there is a call and the flop is not in the “high card” range, a bet will usually take the pot.
In this situation, a pre flop bluff will usually work.
But, as Blagz says, to what benefit? Taking a chance to get some blinds like that is risky and probably not worth the chance.
However, with my type of play (I fold a lot and usually play tight) maybe this will remind people I am still around and if I do get caught, it lets people know I am willing to “play around” a little.
It is something to think about……
‘I have seen Dog do this (pre-flop raise knowing the table dynamic) and he would tell me he has a Q 4 or something. I would say ” What are you doing?” Dog’s response would be “They don’t know what I have.”’
This is a good little weapon to have in your locker. As has been said though, you have to have sussed out the table and got a read on the players. You would never do it under the gun when there’s a full table to act after you. On the button, with only the blinds to follow, it will normally take the pot down. If you are called or raised then you’ve got an easy fold.
I don’t really think it can be classed as a full on bluff in though. I think it has to be classed as an information bet. You have a handle on the other players and you know they will play if they have the cards. You want that information from them in the manner of a call or raise.
A call gives you two live cards. If a low flop comes you can even take it further and raise again. Chances are your opponent will be calling with high cards anyway. If they re-raise you then you have an easy fold.
I find the best way to use this little nugget is when you get down to shorthanded play - and especially if you have a decent chipstack. The blinds are normally high enough for it to be profitable for you, and could start to put your opponents on the backfoot. Just be careful that you don’t bet too much of your stack into someone who may feel pressured to go all-in and chance their luck on a medium hand like a Q9. You don’t want to be pot commited to calling!
At the end of the day, you have to trust your instincts about the people you are playing. You have to be prepared to lose whatever chips you bet out. If you fear losing your chips (as a lot of these players seem to do, therefore play super tight) then I think you can expect to have it done to you at some point.
I personally use this tactic when in the blinds (with very few callers) or on the button. Shorthanded I will use it in any position. Shorthanded I will try to take anyone who limps in out of the hand. Same tactics before if they call or re-raise. But I’m careful enough not to do it all the time.